Tear down this wall 2
par Jerome ITU ~ 01/07/2007, 23:54 . Classé dans : Politique US .Apparemment, la construction du mur le long de la frontière entre les Etats-Unis et le Mexique ne va pas sans rencontrer des problèmes de logistique :
Selon Yahoo News :
COLUMBUS, N.M. – The 1.5-mile barrier along the U.S.-Mexico border was designed to keep cars from illegally crossing into the United States. There’s just one problem: It was accidentally built on Mexican soil. Now embarrassed border officials say the mistake could cost the federal government more than $3 million to fix.
Une partie du mur a été construite sur le sol mexicain. Quelques 2500m qui se trouvent donc érigés du côté mexicain pour environ 30cm à 1,8m.
La faute à un ranch dont la barrière sud empiète ainsi sur le territoire voisin depuis le 19ème siècle, et à laquelle ont aveuglement fait confiance les équipes en charge des travaux.
Evidemment, le gouvernement mexicain s’est fendu d’une note de protestation officielle réclamant le retour de ses terres.
Une petite erreur de tracé qui devrait revenir à 3 millions de dollars pour le contribuable américain.
Peut-être serait-il temps d’étudier plus avant l’idée de Mark Kirk, élu de l’Illinois, qui a une vraie vision de long terme dans la lutte contre l’immigré clandestin sud-américain : la distribution de préservatifs gratuits pour améliorer l’économie mexicaine.
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – A congressman is pushing a not-so-quick fix in the debate over illegal immigrants from Mexico: free contraceptives.
“A slower rate of growth of Mexico’s population would improve the economy of Mexico. It would also reduce the environmental pressure on Mexico’s ecosystem. But a slower rate of growth would also reduce the long-term illegal immigration pressure on America’s borders,” reasoned Rep. Mark Kirk, who also supports stronger border security in the short-term.
Le débat sur l’immigration clandestine avance. Clairement.
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02/07/07 à 05:01
Et oui aux USA ils prennent meme des mesures anti-immigration de l’avant comme de l’arriere, si je peux me permettre.
02/07/07 à 17:18
A congressman is pushing a not-so-quick fix in the debate over illegal immigrants from Mexico: free contraceptives.
Horrible ça! Quelle honte! Les Rednecks, ça ne me surprise plus ce qu’ils disent ou ce qu’il fonts.
03/07/07 à 00:10
Pour Info, au mexique la contraception est gratuite. (les services de santes publique IMSS, fait des distribution de preservatifs et fournit gratuitement la pilule aux femmes.
Dans District Federal (mexico city, le maire vient de legaliser l’avortement).
Tout ceci est ironique, puisque pendant que le mexique (pays le plus catholique au monde) progresse a pas de geants vers un droit generalise a l’avortement, les Etats-unis avec une cour supreme de plus en plus conservatrice sont eux entrain de revenir sur le droit a l’avortement.
Bon, meme si on est choque par le charactere cru des propos du senateur de Illinois, d’un point de vu strictement economique il n’a pas tort. La surpopulation d’un pays cree des ravages. Elle maintient la misere, empeche les jeunes d’acceder a l’education (travailler pour nourir un enfant) et facilite la delinquance.
Comme je l’ai dit au dernier poste, la solution au probleme de l’immigration passe par le co-developement. La plus grande disparite de richesse entre un pays et un autre c’est a la frontiere du Rio grande. Les americains auront beau mettre un champs de force electromagnetique pres de la frontieres, les mexicains feront tout et n’importe quoi pour passer.
03/07/07 à 16:13
tokvil, je reste choque de te re-voir ecrire que les E-U devront reparer l’economie du Mexique. Je ne te croyais pas socialiste a ce point.
Enfin, dans ce cas, on est vraiment oblige de detruire le mur. LOL. The gov’t really can’t do anything right. Anything.
03/07/07 à 19:49
Greg, I never said that the US should build the Mexican economy. And do not call me a socialist, I consider it an insult.
My point is that on the long run, solution to Mexican immigration will be in co-developement meaning the creation of a sound common industrial policy.
In one of my earlier post, I took the example of the southern Europe (Spain and Portugal), you can also take the example of Ireland. It is true that Europe at the begining subsidized infrastructure, but now those countries are a model of capitalist infrastructure.
My point is that the wall is not working. Never in hitory walls have been useful to prevent flow of people (maginot, wall of china, Berlin). The immigration have a cause. Allowing all poor Mexicans to go in the US is not a long term solution (and I am not really in favor of granting citizenship to the illegals). Keeping the status quo is not a solution.
Yes it’s true, the US do not have to help Mexico, but it is the only long-term solution ot the flow of illegals.
03/07/07 à 21:20
@tokvil: vu du cote sud ca ne me parait pas si simple que ca…mais de toute facon c’est sur que le mur ne reglera rien!
03/07/07 à 21:34
Tokvil: How do you know if Mexico wants to be helped?
03/07/07 à 21:39
Greg, Tokvil: I must have missed a point: what’ s wrong with being a socialist?
I would like to hear your take on this ;-)
03/07/07 à 22:18
My father was ruined by the coming of the socialists in 1981 in France. I do not say it is an insult i say I consider it an insult for me
03/07/07 à 22:40
Tokvil: Is this why your family emigrated to the US?
03/07/07 à 22:44
# 7, that’s true. But if you want to solve imigration, you can’t have a unilateral solution.
03/07/07 à 22:51
I totally agree. I am a believer in Free Trade, that would be the first step. If the US and Europe would stop subventioning their agriculture products, products from developing countries would flow into the developed countries opening the door for local development. Today, the US exports corn to Mexico.
I was really disappointed by the collapse last week of the discussions between US- Eu – India and Brazil regarding the future of the Doha round.
The Mexican problem is even more complicated because they export duty free to the US thanks to NAFTA, but the local infrastructure is so bad that they are not even able to meet Chinese prices which them enter the US and are taxed an import duty.
03/07/07 à 23:23
And do not call me a socialist, I consider it an insult.
I meant to tease, sure, but not insult. Pardon.
On walls, I disagree they don’t work. Those that seek to keep people out, rather than in, do seem to be effective on some level. If some day we get a wall on the southern border, I think it will help alleviate the flow of people.
As for economic cooperation with Mexico, isn’t that what NAFTA was for? Hasn’t worked. Mexico’s problems go way beyond economic opportunity. Only Mexico can fix its problems, like corruption and the black market.
03/07/07 à 23:29
If the US and Europe would stop subventioning their agriculture products
Indeed! Didn’t Bush recently suggest this to Europe and get shot down? Either way, I must concede to you and tokvil that we could open up our markets a bit more to the developing world. They have plenty to sell us. They are eager capitalists just like us.
A little off topic, but I saw a neat story a while back about a website that helps you invest in very small business in the 3rd world. Eg., the basket weaver in Africa posts a note that she needs $35 dollars in start-up funds to buy raw materials. You can read about her business and decide to “invest” by loaning her the cash at super low interest. They have to pay back the money. There were a whole bunch of success stories. I love the idea, but lost the website address. Anyone else know what I’m talking about?
04/07/07 à 01:13
I don’t consider myself a socialist, so, no worries.
I also believe that you won’t have an immigration reform without a secure border. I can’t believe that it is impossible to do. Look at Korea, the US runs a border there, on the other side of the world, with something like 30.000 soldiers. Don’t tell me that they can’t do that here.
After this is done, I tend to believe that you can start dealing with the issue, here.
Of course, we can’t deport 12 to 20 million
people. We have to integrate these people. They are part of what is America today. Some have houses here, children etc… I think that we have to make everything possible to have this population be part of modern America. Honestly, It makes me sad when I am in a hotel talking to the housekeeper who has been here 20 years and still has not been able to get a better job. I believe that it is our responsibility to make sure that they have a better future because we share the same country.
The other side of the policy is to guarantee a better access to our markets to developing countries. If they can export their stuff here, this will create jobs in their countries. NAFTA is a good step but I believe that a general reduction on tarrifs worldwide is necessary.
Agricultural export subventions are an economical nonsense. We ship subsidized cotton to China, where it is transformed into Tshirst which are then reexported to the US.
This is crazy.
The cotton is so subzidized that it is more expensive than local grown cotton.
I don’t believe that we can do much about corruption and black markets in developing countries but I tend to believe that free trade can make a difference.
04/07/07 à 01:15
sorry I did not mean “The cotton is so subsidized that it is more expensive than local grown cotton.”
but less expensive than local grown cotton.
05/07/07 à 23:05
Que cette affaire de mur construit au mauvais endroit soit vraie ou non importe peu car cela amene a partir d’une erreur risible a parler d’un sujet ou tout le monde a un avis mais pas vraiment de solution miracle.
les cerises de l’arbre du voisin paraissent
toujours meilleures .mais apres les avoir mangees on voit que ce sont des cerises tout court et qu’elles ne se ramassent pas toutes seules.
http://www.florideconseil.com